Carl Tyler's Blog

1 - Carl - nice work.

Now for my turn

<flame>

I'm sick of people ranting for and against Linux. No computer is so intuitive that a person can take it out of the box and do everything they would ever imagine without some help.

I've "tested" my parents with Linux, Windows, DOS, and a small dose of Mac. They figured out most of the pre-configured stuff on there own but needed help with finding and installing new stuff, configuring a printer, and getting wireless working.

Every computer has issues. Every operating system has issues. None are ubiquitously perfect.

</flame>

Here is a more sound review ... { Link }

2 - It's my blog and I'll bitch if I want to.

Glen don't you agree having two tools to uninstall apps is a bit strange to an end user?

I think this is a great read Top 10 Linux Desktop Hurdles

3 - yes, "two tools to uninstall apps is a bit strange". What's odd, is that I've never had a case where I had to use "Add/Remove". I've always used Synaptic - with two exceptions. (1) a problem I have with an application repository is that it is nearly impossible to keep it up to day and on a few occasions, there were important, newer, versions available as packages but older versions in the repository. (2) not all applications are available as installable packages so you get a tar-gz file. This second issue occasionally effects Windows as well.

It all comes down to numbers. windows has millions (perhaps billions of installs) and linux has a tiny fraction of that. It may never get parity.

4 - "why does Linux/Ubuntu have two different remove program options? Synaptic Manager and Add/Remove, makes not sense to the end user"

Add/Remove Programs is your first port of call - it has plain explanations of applications, community rankings for popularity of applications, and also notes applications that are 'well integrated' into the Gnome desktop that Ubuntu uses.
(I assume Kubuntu does the same for those that integrate well into its KDE desktop.)

Synaptic is for power users, and that's why it's under the system menus rather than on the applications menu. Synaptic talks about dependencies, has no popularity/integration notes, and the descriptions of packages are often opaque due to being written by developers for developers.

Synaptic is occasionally needed. But only when the application you want isn't in Add/Remove Applications, which is rare and getting rarer as more applications get added in.

I don't think this is a serious problem for the average non-technical user of Ubuntu. They are, after all, unlikely to find Synaptic unless they're guided to it. Add/Remove is far more convenient, and still offers hundreds of usable desktop applications.
What Add/Remove doesn't offer are the hundreds of server applications, perl/python/tcl/ruby libraries, command line applications, and so forth. That's Synaptic territory, and I can't fathom why my Dad would go there when he has Add/Remove...

So I don't think this is odd. IN fact, I find it elegant - you have a simple, more user-oriented interface but haven't lost the power of the old technical solution. (And I'm sure some techies argued that Synaptic/Aptitude were redundant when you have apt-get and tools like less and grep to pipe the output through... Hey! Now we have THREE ways to add applications! So you actually underestimated how complicated this is! )

Should Synaptic be better hidden? Perhaps. Maybe the whole Administration menu should be in some way hidden, though... It'd annoy the technical users, but might benefit the casual users.

Striking that balance is difficult. I think that Ubuntu manages it better than most, though... It makes the most common operations simple, without losing the power of the underlying "techie" solutions.

5 - Having 2 tools to install applications is still better than having none, like MS Windows

Add/Remove programs should be enough for 99% the users as it should have everything a regular user needs. If the more techie-types like ourselves need something more unusual like the source for Python or something, then that's what Adept/Synaptic is there for.

I'm not even sure Adept/Synaptic is available or visible to regular users.

6 - too funny - I must have been "educated" by gnomes (pun intended). I never used Add/Remove and didn't even know to look for it. Everything I wanted an application, I was instructed to "Synaptic". Guess I learned something today !

7 - BTW - I just checked out Add/Remove and it seems to be more user friendly but much less complete. For example, "Transmission" is a nice torrent client and it is in Synaptic but not Add/Remove. Same goes for many of the DVD tools and backup tools. Also, Add/Remove does not tell you what version of a product you will get.

8 - Carl, I've used AndLinux with impressive results. It give tighter integration between the Windows desktop and a Linux install. Instead of a VM window, the Linux app runs directly in the Windows desktop.

{ Link }

9 - Carl: My Uncle, who is very well educated, but can not spell "C-P-U" let alone define it, has used a Linux desktop for the past eight years. Yes, I configured it. However, most people buy a new machine with Windows pre-installed. So, there is nothing different here. You can buy Linux machines with it pre-installed and heck customized with quality support as well. One company I know will install it for you on your existing hardware for a fair fee--and then support the build.

Also, RHEL5 (Red Hat) and SLED10 (SuSE) have GUI package managers and installation programs and are doing more with the GUI (to my chagrin). Debian, of which Ubuntu is based, is a bit different.

One advantage of Linux is the customizable environment and distro...in-fact there are hundreds, each having a niche. For example, Knoppix Linux is a live CD that lets you mount your existing Linux install for repair work, or to try a full Linux environment w/o touching your existing desktop; RedFlag Linux is for Chinese double-byte character sets; Turbo Linux is for Japanese users (primarily). Same code, different gui and end-user experience. Without direct involvement from MS this flexibility is *not* possible with Windows. And you are stuck with Program Manger in Windows--you can use various window managers in Unix/Linux.

Oh and the last time I checked, end-users do not setup Notes desktops or Domino servers. That's for the professionals, who just happen to be technical.

Finally, Linux uses a command-line interface for a lot of things if you want--which is great for servers, as you do not need to consume resources with a heavy GUI when you are just serving data; this approach makes for extremely simplified management. The former point is another advantage over Windows, IMHO and something all other enterprise-class server OSs have in-common (e.g. zSeries, iSeries, pSeries, SPARC, HP, and yes, Linux (cross-platform)).

Welcome to the world of the penguin!