Carl Tyler's Blog :: What I want to see at Lotusphere

Category Sametime Freeby
IBM is obviously going to make some noise about Sametime 8.5 at Lotusphere, and for good reason it's been in development for years. So related to Sametime 8.5 here is what I most want to see at Lotusphere.

Lotus Sametime Install Voodoo dolls.

I have decided that black magic is pretty much the only way to install Sametime 8.5 reliably. I am going to hold off from venting too much, but I am not the only one that has wasted way too much time on the "promised land". Yes I understand it all works really well inside IBM, but IBM says that about everything, anyone try and use Symphony to create their Lotusphere slides? If no Voodoo dolls, maybe some chickens we can sacrifice?

Anyway, if we can't see Voodoo dolls at Lotusphere, I would love to see some regular Domino IBMers (not websphere gurus) locked in a room until they go through the entire process of downloading Sametime 8.5, installing sametime 8.5 servers, having all the functionality work, add in a firewall, ensure functionality still works. So no cheating in other words, no use of pre-configured IBM scripts etc. just the same as what customers have to do.

I look forward to being wrong and seeing the blog posts from none IBMers who have managed to install Sametime 8.5 without issue. This post does not come from just a few short hours of frustration it comes from weeks and weeks. I am beginning to miss Workplace IM. Breath Carl breath.

Comments

1 - Normally I am the Optimist to Carl's Pessimist but I'm going to have to agree on this one having lost many many days to the production code so far. I'm hoping the ST team can help us get to the bottom of these new problems before LS but save one of those dolls for me just in case Emoticon

Gab
<disappointedoflondon>

Posted by Gabriella Davis At 10:35:45 AM On 01/06/2010 | - Website - |

2 - I want a voodoo doll in the shape of a server.
A better instruction guide would help everyone. The info center is just not in line with the product. I have a running install log to keep track of what is different so I can hand it off to others.

Posted by Keith Brooks At 10:36:09 AM On 01/06/2010 | - Website - |

3 - I have a better idea. Get the lead architect who designed this and have Carl sit on his/her lap until the issue is fixed.

Posted by Volker Weber At 10:42:47 AM On 01/06/2010 | - Website - |

4 - Well said Carl.

And I'll add that if folks of the caliber of you, Gab and Keith can't install without issue in vanilla VM conditions, then what hope will end users have?

Having said that, I've seen similar issues with Connections v1, and now at Connections 2.5 we have a reasonably deployable product that installs reliably. Perhaps we just need to wait for Sametime 10? Emoticon

Posted by Stuart McIntyre At 10:46:38 AM On 01/06/2010 | - Website - |

5 - I have posted about the 10gb of code instead of shared base DB2 and WAS resources, as well as suffered through days of install. Let's not add a firewall or NAT to the mix, life gets unpleasant

Posted by Chris Miller At 10:54:36 AM On 01/06/2010 | - Website - |

6 - @4 and how long passed between v1 and v2.5 Stuart?

I intend to hit the ST sessions at Lotusphere, sounds like we'll need them (although as you say if Gab & co are having problems what chance for us ST 8.5 newbies?)

Posted by Peter Smith At 10:57:00 AM On 01/06/2010 | - Website - |

7 - Amen

Not going to happen though.

Posted by Paul Mooney At 11:41:23 AM On 01/06/2010 | - Website - |

8 - @6 2 years between LC1 and 2.5, Peter.

The difference here is that Sametime is an established, mature, trusted product, not a brand new 'first to the market' product in a new sector. Different expectations...

Posted by Stuart McIntyre At 11:42:40 AM On 01/06/2010 | - Website - |

9 - I could say very unkind things here, but I won't. I also won't be on the "installed without problems"-list. Sign me up for the Voodoo Doll!

Posted by Dennis van Remortel At 11:52:39 AM On 01/06/2010 | - Website - |

10 - Voodoo dolls are not necessary and the magic need not be to extreme.

When Remus Lupin was teaching Defence Against the Dark Arts at Hogwarts, he created a counter spell against such things. Say, "Insalliamous" while simultaneously making a jabbing motion with your wand. Just make sure you are back far enough not to hit the reset button on the servers with the tip of your wand.

Posted by Glen At 12:23:26 PM On 01/06/2010 | - Website - |

11 - I will bring you a certified Voodoo doll from New Orleans.

Use it as you will.

Posted by Craig Wiseman At 12:42:40 PM On 01/06/2010 | - Website - |

12 - We made the mistake of installing Sametime on Linux. There was I thinking you had to be invited to participate in a beta testing program? What a disgrace calling it Gold. I can honestly say that we spent 2 years of hell and pain and a lot of money trying to stabilise our Sametime environment. Today it is working - but please don't sneeze near it. Put me down for a Lotusphere lynch mob.

Posted by Matt Wintour At 01:43:35 PM On 01/06/2010 | - Website - |

13 - We made the mistake of installing Sametime on Linux. There was I thinking you had to be invited to participate in a beta testing program? What a disgrace calling it Gold. I can honestly say that we spent 2 years of hell and pain and a lot of money trying to stabilise our Sametime environment. Today it is working - but please don't sneeze near it. Put me down for a Lotusphere lynch mob.

Posted by Matt Wintour At 01:44:31 PM On 01/06/2010 | - Website - |

14 - uh oh ... I made a mistake ... if you use the incantation "insalliamous" you turn your servers to salt. It should be "Installiamous" !

Posted by Glen At 01:48:33 PM On 01/06/2010 | - Website - |

15 - I agree Carl. I also *like* that it requires a specific version of DB2... Makes everything so much easier. We followed the instructions... and of course it can't be uninstalled properly... But who doesn't like to reinstall Windows a couple of times?

Posted by Mathias Persson At 02:04:58 PM On 01/06/2010 | - Website - |

16 - I like it that we have two application server platforms available - one that is widely known and respected for its ease of install/upgrade/configuration/reliability, and one that is known to be unwieldy/difficult to upgrade/hard to patch/resource-hungry/difficult to trouble-shoot etc.

All new strategic functionality is being built on the latter.

Run that past me again?

Emoticon

Posted by Stuart McIntyre At 04:32:54 PM On 01/06/2010 | - Website - |

17 - To represent the other side of the story, we have actually seen many many successful installations during beta phase of Sametime 8.5 in the last 12 months - and that not just at IBM.

IBM team is more than willing to jump in an help out with early deployments via our support teams. Do come to the Lotusphere sessions and installation workshops ( eg complete install in 2 hours!) Ask us your tough questions, keep an open mind and learn.

Posted by Rob Ingram At 11:54:11 PM On 01/06/2010 | - Website - |

18 - @17 You're right Rob, the beta actually in many cases installed better than gold. Thanks to your help, and the discovery of a bug using Domino LDAP in the most common configuration things are now progressing, still too many failures occur though.

Posted by Carl Tyler At 07:49:07 AM On 01/07/2010 | - Website - |

19 - It might just be me, but I really can't see the point of 8.5 at all.

Yes, the 8 meeting center is rubbish, but in 8.5 I actually need to download code to now do the same thing (AV etc). Isn't that a step backwards? I'll be the first to say that I don't like Sametime on Domino - but the huge install requirements outweigh any potential benefits of the new version at all IMHO. I'll just scuttle off now...

Posted by Warren Elsmore At 08:23:15 AM On 01/07/2010 | - Website - |

20 - @19 - Warren

Clarification. Audio video always has and always will require client download code. You need some client code to interact with the AV hardware. In the past, AV meetings client was just part of the rather large meeting applet that you had to download every single time a meeting started.

Now, once you have Sametime 8.5 Connect client or Notes with Sametime 8.5 embedded installed on you desktop, there is no more code to install and no waiting to start any meeting. That alone is a huge change and transforms whether you might use a meetings tool or not.

PS At Lotusphere you might hear some more news about other AV client options - maybe see you at the UK party (I have the correct accent as Carl will confirm)!

Posted by Rob Ingram At 04:03:51 PM On 01/07/2010 | - Website - |

21 - @19 Well Warren Sametime 8.5 is not for everyone although if you really need it you could still use IBM's cloud offering. I understand that making Sametime more IGS friendly has been long overdue. It is a good thing.

Posted by Henning Heinz At 04:24:21 PM On 01/07/2010 | - Website - |

22 - @21 - Yes, I agree and I'm very happy about promoting that option.

@20 - The devil is in the detail, I guess. In a locked down client environment (as all of our clients are), pre-deploying a java applet is alot easier than a separate client. Most of our Sametime users are not on Notes 8, for instance - so this means new client code to install. I've used totally flash-based AV though, which is kinda cool.

OH, and of course you're very welcome to come join us! Make sure to keep an eye on my blog, though Emoticon

Posted by Warren Elsmore At 09:32:55 AM On 01/08/2010 | - Website - |

23 - Has anybody succeeded installing ST 8.5 server on Ubuntu?
I know it's an unsupported plattform but this is the preferred plattform for Domino and offered by our Internet hoster.

Or is this requiring too much Voodoo?

Posted by Ruediger Weitz At 12:42:14 PM On 01/19/2010 | - Website - |